Accentuate Writers Forum

Fielding your MS

dalehileman - 4/18/2009 at 12:51 PM

I am hoping to find in ACCENTUATE an ambitious writer/blogger to undertake a new and wonderful project

Since word processing makes it an estimated 25 times easier so there are now 25 times as many writers, there are probably 625 times as many MS's bouncing around your court. While Ayn Rand was rejected by 12 publishers before she found one willing to accept her first major novel (The Fountainhead), today she might still be unsuccessful after 625x12 = 7500 tries. If Hemingway were alive today he would have a new reason to commit suicide

To further set hurdles, as late as 2003 most “conventional” publishers astoundingly wouldn't accept your digital MS but required you snailmail a printed copy, presumably with return postage. Today Ayn would have to come up with about $30,000 in postage not to mention $1000 worth of printer paper


So there is in fact, a “vanity” publisher predominant who will laugh if you suggest they pay you and instead you pay them . If unsuccessful you of course don’t get a penny from anybody. But you did get to choose its font and page size and the appearance of the cover. Now there are a daunting number of online sites where you might get published (Googing “electronic publishing” will get you 30 million hits) but which are also devoid of any sort of compensation

(Admittedly there are some "free" sites such as Helium.com and lulu.com but they're massively complex, require all sorts of silly protocol, and where you will probably wind up paying for their services anyhow)

There ought to be an easier way for the aspiring author to find a suitable market. So somebody who knows how to do these things should start a new site. It would be easy to use and would work as follows:

You--the hopeful writer--would submit an email or a post containing boilerplate such as your name and address and identify means of remuneration such as Pay Pal, etc. You would simply include your MS as an attachment. That’s all you would be required to do

After a quick scan if Admin of this new site considered your MS at all promising, it would set into motion software which submits the MS (in digital form of course) to pubs—mags or booksellers—considered compatible. If not of course you would soon get a rejection notice

Given even an outside chance, however, you might thus get the attention that would otherwise require you ten years of sweat, tears, and expenditure to perform alone; while eventually the Admin of this new site might realize a few cents’ profit by a modest cut from any successful pub or even in the case for instance of a best-seller, a substantial return

andisaid - 4/18/2009 at 12:57 PM

What are you talking about? Are you a spammer? Etiquette on this site requires you to introduce yourself, talk about your work, etc.

I also noticed you had a different name besides Accentuate and then you edited your post which leads me to believe you are spamming.

Do please let us know.

Melanie - 4/18/2009 at 01:11 PM

So... this service would email submit manuscripts, cover letters and/or queries for a writer so the writer doesn't have to do it themselves? I have to say that actually sending the emails to various places is the easy part of the whole process.

What special powers or connections does the website owner have that a writer would not have? If a publication or agent accepts email submissions, how is the writer being saved money from this?

Upon re-reading it, it seems you are suggesting that a writer or blogger begin a site like this and not offering the service. It seems like a way to prey upon people who want to be published but don't understand how it works. I just don't see how an agent or publisher would respond better to something submitted by a go-between rather than the writer themselves.


Witchmojo - 4/18/2009 at 01:13 PM

:spam: until proven otherwise.

Edit - Interesting choice of name there

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dalehileman

Google is a wonderful thing ;)

cwilson26 - 4/18/2009 at 01:40 PM

Oh my gosh, LMAO! That definition says it all, lol. :)

dalehileman - 4/18/2009 at 01:42 PM

"What are you talking about?"

A proposed system for fielding MS's digitally. I had hoped somebody might initiate a totally new kind of site as I describe or better yet provide a link to one such already existing

"Are you a spammer?"

No not a spammer, good gosh at least I hope not. If I gave that impression perhaps it is because I had trouble trying to post, wasn't sure what password to use, etc etc and may have transmitted an identical message two or three times, as well as experiencing difficulty with the Editing Function which seems to have some peculiarities I haven't encountered before

"Etiquette on this site requires you to introduce yourself, talk about your work, etc."

Sorry my bad, I didn't realize that was necessary. I am Dale Hileman, live in Apple Valley, CA, am a voluminous writer and electronics engineer now retired. In my 79th year and with approaching Alzheimer's I find it difficult to cope with typical Internet protocol, which might account for Admin's reaction to my attempts.

My last book is entitled The World as Told to the Young Man in Short Words and purports to describe the workings of God, the World, and the Universe in 77,000 words of one syllable If there's anything else you'd like me to add please let me know

Incidentally when I attempt to bold a word (by highlighting it then using the B icon) I am either asked to retype it or when I go to Advanced it instead deletes the word. Yet again forgive me for my difficulties with the algorithm, for I must be at the tipping point of senility

Anyone wishing to converse, I am dalehileman@me.com and yes I realize it's supposed to be risky to thus post an email add.; Admin, thank you but please leave it in that form as I am fearless of the hackers. My hobbies are posting my opinions, feelings, and observations on the Net and tasting beer with my grown sons in our jacuzzi; am an erstwhile inventor and rockhound. I do a lot of yardwork but don't consider it a hobby; however, I would discuss anything, be happy to hear from anyone on anything

"I also noticed you had a different name besides Accentuate and then you edited your post which leads me to believe you are spamming"

No not by any means. I first misspelled the word and my first or second attempt was aimed at correcting it, which was successful except that in one of my earlier attempts a couple of words has somehow disappeared from the text below and so my third or fourth attempt aimed at replacing them. I apologize profusely for causing such a ruckus

"Do please let us know"

So if I have not been clear I again apologize, and if there is anything I can add or if I can clarify my post by any means whatever, please so advise and I will comply





Witchmojo - 4/18/2009 at 01:46 PM

Ah, I recognise you now. Allow me to introduce this item and then I will leave everyone to decide by themselves.

http://wordsmith.org/board/ubbthreads.php/topics/183460/Shades_of_b...

(Personally, I'll be steering clear after reading those posts)

dalehileman - 4/18/2009 at 02:15 PM


"So... this service would email submit manuscripts, cover letters and/or queries for a writer so the writer doesn't have to do it themselves? I have to say that actually sending the emails to various places is the easy part of the whole process'

The easy part is writing your book. The hard part is finding a suitable publisher

"I have to say that actually sending the emails to various places is the easy part of the whole process."

Part of the problem is, you don't know exactly where to send them. As I pointed out, "electronic publisher" gets three million hits on Google. To say nothing of conventional ink-on-paper pubs, you could spend the rest of your life identifying prospects then narrowing it to the most likely. My site would be like a digitized, automated Writer's Market

I used to use the latter facility. In three volumes it was literally a foot thick. Literally

"What special powers or connections does the website owner have that a writer would not have?"

My website, as my proposal explains, would provide an elaborate means for determining the best market and forwarding a copy of the MS. It would have to employ some real experts in the trade but as I said there's always a chance for its survival and even a whopping success in the case of a best seller

"If a publication or agent accepts email submissions, how is the writer being saved money from this?"

No printer paper nor postage. Once more see refs to Ayn Rand

"Upon re-reading it, it seems you are suggesting that a writer or blogger begin a site like this and not offering the service."

Sorry, don't understand the question

"It seems like a way to prey upon people who want to be published but don't understand how it works."

Not at all, the service wold be free to you the writer but if a pub accepts a MS my site might get a modest commission or royalty, as I had suggested

" I just don't see how an agent or publisher would respond better to something submitted by a go-between rather than the writer themselves."

They mightn't better respond, that's not the idea. At my site the MS is analyzed to determine the best sort of market, as I had described, then sent out to all likely prospects, a daunting task for me or you. See comments about Ayn Rand

Thank you Mel for this chance to clarify if indeed that's what I have done


dalehileman - 4/18/2009 at 02:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Witchmojo  
:spam: until proven otherwise.

Edit - Interesting choice of name there

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dalehileman

Google is a wonderful thing ;)


Thank you Witch for those links. Incidentally I had once approached Helium in the hope of peddling an article I had penned, but I gave up in disgust when they wanted to change its title before even reading it; pure silliness. Also I note they offer a number of services, as don't they all, that will cost you

dalehileman - 4/18/2009 at 02:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by cwilson26  
Oh my gosh, LMAO! That definition says it all, lol. :)


Thank you Clar for the links but I'm not sure whether your comment is encouragement or insult. What means LMAO and to what definition do you refer

cwilson26 - 4/18/2009 at 02:47 PM

I was referring to Witch's definition of your name. Click on the link that she provided and the definition says you are a board pest. It wasn't meant to be insulting, I was just laughing at the definition. LMAO means Laughing my ass off!

What you should have done when you joined was posted an introduction in the introduce yourself thread and then you could have posted this here. We like to know about new members first and since you didn't do that, we thought you were spamming the board. There are a lot of spammers out there so if you don't intend to spam the board you have to watch how you post. Post an introduction in the intro thread first and let us get to know you and then we won't think of you as a spammer.

I apologize if my post came about to be an insult but I was laughing at Witch's post on the definition of your name. Anyway, welcome to the forum and I hope to get to know you better through here. :)

Melanie - 4/18/2009 at 03:19 PM

Can't anyone post something on Urban Dictionary? Anyone who ever thought this guy annoying could put his name up there, so I take that with a grain of salt.

I suppose this is essentially a 'match-making' service between a writer and various publishers.

Personally, I couldn't imagine putting the choice of where my manuscript is submitted into the hands of someone else. If there was an extensive back and forth from manuscript submission until the actual submission to publications/publishers, I suppose it would work, but that would still require the writer to educate themselves about i.

Of course, many people are not willing to educate themselves that extensively.


Quote:
"If a publication or agent accepts email submissions, how is the writer being saved money from this?"

No printer paper nor postage.


Perhaps I wasn't clear with my question. If a publication accepts email submissions anyway, the writer would not have to pay for paper, ink and postage to begin with. I had the impression that you were proposing that your service would reduce costs for the writer during the submission process. I may have been mistaken. :)

dalehileman - 4/18/2009 at 03:20 PM

"I was referring to Witch's definition.....a board pest...... LMAO means Laughing my ass off! "

Why thank you Cw. They had promised to remove that def but apparently didn't. Now however I think I'll leave it

"What you should have done......and since you didn't do that, we thought you were spamming the board."

Aha, sorry about that, my bad

" ......Post an introduction in the intro thread......and then we won't think of you as a spammer."

"I apologize if my post came about to be an insult ......and I hope to get to know you better through here. :)"

Why thank you and no apologies necessary. So how do I find the "Introduce Yourself" window

PS: What's a BB code and why should I want to turn it off

dalehileman - 4/18/2009 at 03:40 PM

"[author=Melanie]Can't anyone post something on Urban Dictionary?"

Yes Mel evidently so

"Anyone who ever thought this guy annoying

Who me

......could put his name up there, so I take that with a grain of salt."

"I suppose this is essentially a 'match-making' service between a writer and various publishers."

If you mean my proposed site, well, yes

"Personally, I couldn't imagine putting the choice of where my manuscript is submitted into the hands of someone else."

I don't care who accepts my MS as long as they pay me for it

"....... I suppose it would work, but that would still require the writer to educate themselves about it."

That's part of what I'd like to avoid

"Of course, many people are not willing to educate themselves that extensively."

You can surely assert that once more
"
""If a publication or agent accepts email submissions, how is the writer being saved money from this?"""

""No printer paper nor postage.""

"Perhaps I wasn't clear with my question. If a publication accepts email submissions anyway, the writer would not have to pay for paper, ink and postage to begin with."

My bad, I was reading too fast

"I had the impression that you were proposing that your service would reduce costs for the writer during the submission process. I may have been mistaken. :)"

Valid question. I was making kind of a general statement, supposing this new site of mine would approach ink-and-paper pubs as well as online. I was hoping that by now some of these--however few--would accept an emailed MS also, at least in the early phase to provide a basis for requesting a printed MS. They are however about 30 years behind the times

Nancy G. - 4/18/2009 at 04:50 PM

I can only speak for myself, but I would not be interested in putting my book in the hands of anyone else other than a verified, legit literary agent to sell to publishers. I would not send it to any other site to sell for me. I want more control than that. A great many agents and publishers accept email queries and submissions these days. As for the ones that don't, I'll just spend the money, thank you, to have the control.

Perhaps when you have established your site and have a few years of verified sales I might be more inclined to think about the possiblity.

dalehileman - 4/19/2009 at 08:42 AM

"[author=Nancy G.]I can only speak for myself, but I would not be interested in putting my book in the hands of anyone else other than a verified, legit literary agent.................."

Nancy I would hope that my proposed site would be run by dedicated professionals though I have little hope it will ever come about, Meanwhile I am wondering if any such site already exists (except for Helium, lulu, and the like that turned out disappointing) as I have no desire to plough through 3 million Google hits

"Perhaps when you have established your site and have a few years of verified sales.............[/ rquote]"

Not me, I would never attempt any such project as I'm retired while that's a form of work and anyway in my 79th year I would expire long before making appreciable headway. I note you describe yourself as a "Master Writer". I wish I were a master but instead I am the country's most resoundingly unpublished writer, only partly because I lack the persistence to peddle my works, But maybe you know someone who would consider my proposal

cwilson26 - 4/19/2009 at 09:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by dalehileman  
"I was referring to Witch's definition.....a board pest...... LMAO means Laughing my ass off! "

Why thank you Cw. They had promised to remove that def but apparently didn't. Now however I think I'll leave it

"What you should have done......and since you didn't do that, we thought you were spamming the board."

Aha, sorry about that, my bad

" ......Post an introduction in the intro thread......and then we won't think of you as a spammer."

"I apologize if my post came about to be an insult ......and I hope to get to know you better through here. :)"

Why thank you and no apologies necessary. So how do I find the "Introduce Yourself" window

PS: What's a BB code and why should I want to turn it off


The introduction thread is here:

http://accentuatewritersforum.com/files/forumdisplay.php?fid=2

Michy - 4/19/2009 at 11:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by dalehileman  

Thank you Witch for those links. Incidentally I had once approached Helium in the hope of peddling an article I had penned, but I gave up in disgust when they wanted to change its title before even reading it; pure silliness. Also I note they offer a number of services, as don't they all, that will cost you


First, Helium doesn't charge for any of their services. Not sure where you get that. Many people on this site write for Helium, and not one of us has ever paid Helium a penny.

..........

Second, what you're suggesting is literally an e-agent. Agents don't charge fees unless the manuscript sells. Quite frankly, I would not touch an e-agent with a ten foot pole.

..........

Third, I'm four-times published by three different publishers in print books and write for a HUGE variety of publishers in electronic and magazine form. I've never paid any publisher to publish me, and all of my submissions have been through email. I don't send paper submissions, ever. If a publisher requires a paper submissions, I simply move on to another one that is more up with the times. There are plenty from which to choose.

.........

Fourth, writing the book is NOT the easiest part. It's by far and away the most difficult part - IF you are writing a book that is worth selling, that is. Crap won't get published, period. Mediocre won't get published, period.

Exceptional writing will get published... and exceptional writing is not easy.

.........

Finishing reading the thread now - just had to interject that.

Michy - 4/19/2009 at 11:11 AM

Quote: Originally posted by dalehileman  
"
Nancy I would hope that my proposed site would be run by dedicated professionals though I have little hope it will ever come about, Meanwhile I am wondering if any such site already exists (except for Helium, lulu, and the like that turned out disappointing) as I have no desire to plough through 3 million Google hits


Helium is not a publisher - they are an online publication. Lulu is a printer, not a publisher. Lulu is POD, print on demand self publishing. Helium is an online magazine.

They aren't comparable. There are many, many ways to publish for free or for cheap if someone wants to do it.

We don't want to self publish though. Writers generally want to go through the trade publishers, where hundreds of thousands of books sell.

you said: I don't care who accepts my MS as long as they pay me for it

...
I care. I very much care. I could publish my manuscript with any number of publishers out there, both those who charge me for publishing and those who don't, but I haven't submitted my manuscript to them, because I want a trade publisher - period.

I absolutely DO care who publishes me, and so do 90% or more of writers out there.

I think what's wrong here is that YOU truly do not understand how the publishing industry works.

Michy - 4/19/2009 at 11:18 AM

Dale, were you at the West Texas Writers meeting? Did I meet you there?


dalehileman - 4/19/2009 at 11:30 AM

"There are many, many ways to publish for free or for cheap if someone wants to do it"

Mich: I would only insist (1) that it be absolutely free, (2) that my MS or query--in digital form-- would reach a large number of appropriate markets and (3) that those markets be known for payment or royalties consistent with the market. If you happen to know of such I'd be grateful for a link

dalehileman - 4/19/2009 at 11:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Michelle L Devon (Michy)  
Dale, were you at the West Texas Writers meeting? Did I meet you there?



No but curious

You appear to be an honest-to-goodness writer compared to I who am he country's most resoundingly unpublished scribbler and you are welcome to contact me at dalehileman@me.com and apparently don't care who knows

Incidentally do you happen to know what a "Smilies" is

Michy - 4/20/2009 at 10:26 AM

The smilies are the emoticons, like this: :):(:cool::thumbdown:;):lol:

As for your idea... I have a feeling something like this will be created in the near future - more of an e-agent thing. I still won't consider it, however.... I think some writers would.

I also think as things move more toward being digital, we'll see the emergence of other things like this coming up.

As for the link... I've posted many paying leads and publishers on the paying leads section of the board. You might want to look at some of them.

I'll try to remember to come back with more... right now, I'm not feeling so hot.

dalehileman - 4/20/2009 at 11:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Michelle L Devon (Michy)  
The smilies are the emoticons, like this: :):(:cool::thumbdown:;):lol:

****Aha

As for your idea... I have a feeling something like this will be created in the near future - more of an e-agent thing.

******Yes exactly and hope you're right

I still won't consider it, however.... I think some writers would.

******Me

I also think as things move more toward being digital, we'll see the emergence of other things like this coming up.

******I await such breathlessly. Meantime however anyone having already discovered any such, I'm listening

As for the link... I've posted many paying leads and publishers on the paying leads section of the board. You might want to look at some of them.

******Not sure how to use this. What page do you find it on and how to you post on it

At present I have one article and one book I'd like to peddle in digital form

I'll try to remember to come back with more... right now, I'm not feeling so hot.


Me neither but that's because I'm so ancient. Hope you soon recover, and thanks for your interest. Forgive my use of the ****** to flag my replies but as an old fella on the verge of senility have just a whole lot of trouble with the editing facility here. Every time I highlight a word or phrase then click on an editing icon (eg: B, I or "), instead of getting edited it vanishes

PS: Thanks again and oh yes, what's a BBCode

Nancy G. - 4/20/2009 at 12:12 PM

Mr. Hileman, if you have not found it yet, see the big blue and white 'swish' at the top left of the page, right before the words 'Accentuate Writers Forum'? Click on that and you will find a long list of the threads and services offered by this forum. This is where you will find paying jobs, contests, etc.

dalehileman - 4/20/2009 at 12:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Nancy G.  
...... blue and white 'swish'......Click on that......you will find paying jobs, contests, etc.


Nancy thank you most kindly but when I click on it all that happens is that it returns me to the list of subforms, which I suppose must be Home Page. As you may have surmised I'm just not good at this stuff

Nancy G. - 4/20/2009 at 12:33 PM

Yes, the list of subforums: General Writing, Introduce Yourself, Promote your writing, Coffee Break, on and on until you see the one with 'jobs' in it. Each of these sub-forums has 'threads' in them. Under the sub-forum with jobs in the title you will find threads for various places to submit work, and what kind of article they want, etc.

You need to spend some time exploring the forum to get any good from it. Exploring is easy, just click and read. When you want to go back either use the little arrow beside the 'forward' button' or click on the swish again.

Please stop blaming your inexperience on your age. I am only a very few years behind you. If I can do it you can too!

dalehileman - 4/20/2009 at 12:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Nancy G.  
Yes, the list of subforums:.....has 'threads' in them..... places to submit work, and what kind of article they want, etc.

You need to spend some time exploring the forum to get any good from it.

**** shall indeed and thanks for your patience

Please stop blaming your inexperience on your age. I am only a very few years behind you. If I can do it you can too!


*******I'm not so sure. Clearly your grasp of the whole megillah is far superior to mine but again thank you for your forbearance. I will surely look into them. Problem is, it seems, is the def of "forum". I had always considered forum a list of threads, whereas here the forum is a list of forums

To that end you might find the following amusing or instructive

http://wordsmith.org/board/ubbthreads.php/topics/184397#Post184397


Nancy G. - 4/20/2009 at 12:43 PM

Forum>subforum>threads

dalehileman - 4/20/2009 at 12:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Nancy G.  
Forum>subforum>threads


Nancy forgive me, I thought that I had made up the term "subforum". Still it must be rare term as I dont find it here

http://foldoc.org/contents/S.html

One problem is I always get wound up in technicalities. Thanks again for your interest and concern

Nancy G. - 4/20/2009 at 01:00 PM

Why does it matter so much to you what things are called? Unless you are in the process of writing something that calls for labeling of such information this is a useless pursuit. You could be reading the threads and learning valuable information which may help you write/sell your writing/enter contests/etc instead of arguing about what the offshoots of the main menu are called. It doesn't matter if they are forums, subforums, threads, as long as you read them and absorb what is being said. Don't be such a nit-picker! This is a very friendly and supportive group of people if you will interact with them in a friendly way.

dalehileman - 4/20/2009 at 01:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Nancy G.  
Why does it matter so much to you what things are called? ......This is a very friendly and supportive group of people if you will interact with them in a friendly way.


No intention to offend; my offhand style tends to puzzle some and affront others; my most abject apologies and thank you again for the welcome

Michy - 4/20/2009 at 01:14 PM

Nancy's right - the entire website here is a Board, on the Board are categories that are called forums. In each Forum, there can be sub-forums, and inside the sub-forums, there are threads.

Not every 'forum' has a sub-forum though. So goes like this:

Board > Forum > Sub Forum > Thread > Post

OR

Board > Forum > Thread > Post

But sometimes people just call this entire place a 'forum', which by definition, it also is.

I also agree with Nancy that as long as we can sorta decipher what you mean and you us, what we call things is far less important than finding the information we need and seek and learning.