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Anyone believe in Ghostwriters
In December I did a ghostwriting job and after reading Michy's article,
http://worldliteratures.suite101.com/article.cfm/famous-books-writt...
it got me wondering about how other writers feel about the idea.
Would you take a job writing a book for which you get paid a flat fee but get no credit as the author or residuals from the sale 
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Theresa
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I've never thought about it yet. Honestly, I don't know. Might strongly depend on who the author is. I would certainly NOT do it for anyone.
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Nancy G.
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I wonder how much some ghostwriter made from writing Sarah Palin's book for her. I get the idea of ghost writers, because some people just can't
write, but I wish it could be done differently, so the true writer gets the credit. Like at least double billing, or something. (I mean both names on
the book, not double money).
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Melanie
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Sure. Every time I write some articles for a client I'm ghost writing -- sites like Constant Content, Daily Article, Textbroker, Seed.
I would ghost write a book. In fact, I intend to make it part of my future business. I need an income more than recognition.
Melanie 
"Go forth boldly in the direction of your dreams." Thoreau
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Going Forth Boldly -- The Chronicle of Becoming a Professional Fiction Writer
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annew
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I write books as a ghost, both for flat fees and if I believe in the marketing plan a fee plus a percentage... old tradition.
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Michy
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I have ghostwritten about 20 books.... about 15 of them were e-books but the others were print books - usually it was nonfiction, where the 'expert'
did an outline about what they wanted to say, and I did the rest of the work and put it together and such.
I did a project for Atlantic Publishing, and got a flat rate for it. You can find that book on Amazon and in bookstores - and it is a book I am NOT
proud of (sigh) and wish I had never done it.
Then, a friend of mine who is a counselor and does some stuff on gay/lesbian/bi/poly and other alternative relationships hired me awhile back to
ghostwrite for her, then she decided she didn't like the openness of the internet, so she sorta 'gave' me her pen name and I took over writing for
her.. then she came back when I started doing well with it and wanted her 'name' back - ugh, what a mess that was!
But I've come to the conclusion that I'm cut out for ghostwriting. I'm really NOT into writing for the money - I mean, I want to make a living, don't
get me wrong, but I'm not INTO it for the money - I'm into it for the message and I do want people to know I wrote it - it might be an ego thing, but
I do want people to know my writing.
So.... while I don't judge those who ghostwrite - and in fact, think there is a time and place for it - I won't do it myself any longer.... just a
personal choice.
But... thank you for posting/linking to my article! I liked writing that one!
Love and stuff,
Michy
~~Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations~~
Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." James R. Cook
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LaurelHeio
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I liked reading it, but at first I was horrified that you were going to tell me Rowling didn't actually write the Harry Potter
series.
Personally, I don't think I could ever ghostwrite. The satisfaction of seeing my name on a book is something I haven't yet achieved, but hope to.
The world is a beautiful place to be born into if you don't mind some people dying all the time or maybe only starving some of the time which isn't
half so bad if it isn't you.
- Laurence Ferlinghetti
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WNed
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Quote: Originally posted by Michy  |
... so she sorta 'gave' me her pen name and I took over writing for her.. then she came back when I started doing well with it and wanted her 'name'
back - ugh...
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I was hired to produce a TV pilot for the NY TV Festival. The original script was truly amateurish (the opinion of everyone who read
it), so I was given permission to rewrite it. Halfway through the rewrite, the owner had 'control issues', and pulled the plug rather than submit a
ghostwritten project. That was a small project that I would have had my name associated with anyway, so I didn't mind not getting "written by" credit.
I'm afraid my ego would bawk at getting no credit for a major project, though... even with pay. I agree with Michy, in that whenever I've worked just
for the money, I've ended up paying at least as much as I got paid... just not monetarily.
That said, I have a great deal of respect for people who have responsibilities, and just "do what they gotta do" to meet those
responsibilities. "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!"
As for Sarah Palin's "ghostwriter", Lynn Vincent, she's about as ethereal as a two-by-four, swung at great velocity, making cranial
contact. Latest Google result was 74,800 references to "Sarah Palin + ghostwriter". God, please grant us all such anonymity as writers, ghost or
otherwise.
Ned
Ned
I tried mature, rational, adult. Read the end of Don Quixote to see how that worked out.
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Gracie
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Bumping this thread to say: Great article. I absolutely believe in ghostwriters. I was one. You make a wonderful point, Michy, about people having
something to share without the ability to put it into words. Or perhaps, not the time.
I actually worked as a ghostwriter for some time. I worked primarily with a single client. I wrote magazine articles for her. I also did work on a
few ebooks. It was a great learning experience.
As Michy mentioned things can get a bit complicated. I'm not sure that I would do it again; it would depend heavily upon the client. I am trying to
build up a catalogue of writing with my own name on it, after all. 
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Michy
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Gracie, could you imagine a book becoming a best-selling one, that you mostly wrote, but someone else's name was on it? That would just kill me.
Love and stuff,
Michy
~~Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations~~
Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." James R. Cook
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Gracie
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Excellent point! This actually happened to a writer I know. And for an award-winning book, at that.
I might consider an article here or there as a favor to a friend, but nothing much beyond that. There was a time and a place for ghostwriting in my
life.
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Paul
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As I struggle with trying to write my work in a style that will appeal to a wider audience I can certainly see why you would want to hire a ghost
writer. After the torrid pace that I can usually write at, the effort to shift my style is making this incredibly slow work.
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czechwizard
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Interesting experiences, indeed. You make me feel like a ghost in the fog. Obviously, I'm not much of a writer, but the books I've spawned during my
dark writing career spanning for almost two carving decades have my unique seal, a badge that cannot be denied or defied. And even though I've been
labeled "what a bloody human ego machine", I still claim I'm the most humble person on earth, based on my extreme lifestyle of frugality. I could
never become a ghostwriter, but I respect ghostwriting for what it is. Especially when "the Eye" is ever so watchful, like "Latest Google result was
74,800 references to "Sarah Palin + ghostwriter". God, please grant us all such anonymity as writers, ghost or otherwise."
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raian76
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No, I wouldn't ghostwrite for anyone. I'm too busy. I write stories that are in my head and that I need to get out of my head. If they sell (which
of course is my ultimate goal) so be it. If they don't, I've had a lot of fun in my own little world. I something look at writing as having those
"imaginary" friends from childhood. Those friends become my characters. Those characters are what I become passionate about. I could not get the
same passion out of someone else's ideas or characters.
I don't write non-fiction unless I'm forced to (like at work).
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Skwerly
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I would like to be recognized for my work. The whole idea of ghostwriting a book for someone else turns me off completely. That's like playing the
drums for a popular recording artist but watching the other guy tour. NO way. I understand that some folks have really interesting things to say and
don't have what it takes to pen a book, but I won't do it for them.
The entire idea horrifies me somewhat. I'm with Michy. I want to make a living, but you can keep that avenue. Whoever was paying would have to
start at $20,000 and move up from there with their negotiations with me, and somehow that doesn't seem very realistic. I imagine it's more like 3 or
5k for that kind of thing, but I could be wrong.
I mean, if you write well enough to have stuff published, why not just write it and get it published, experiencing the full monetary gain? Baffling
to me.
I seemed to be looking down from an immense height upon a twilit grotto, knee-deep with filth, where a white-bearded daemon swineherd drove about
with his staff a flock of fungous, flabby beasts whose appearance filled me with unutterable loathing.
My AC page:
Derek's Junk
My Horror Writing Forum: http://writersofhorror.myfreeforum.org/index.php
I **love** creepy trees!
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lydya
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In general, I want to be recognized for my work. Writing articles are lost cause because like Melanie, we often sell our rights when we sell our
content although some sites allow us to retain our copyright. (That is why I am still angry at Mahalo for changing their TOS at will, confiscated our
writings, and stripped out all mentions of writers from the articles, even from the history page, but that is another matter).
I can't imagine being a ghostwriter for a book unless I am paid very highly for that. I would love to ghostwrite for Harlequin though. I heard they
pay 10k/ book, and I can't see one of their books end up as best selling as Harry Potter. lol.
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moonshadow68
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Lydya,
Most Harlequin writers use their own names or their own pen names. According to a published friend of mine, the advances for most Harlequin books
begin a $3K and then you do get royalties. She said the royalties are substantially more than the advance on most books.
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lydya
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Thanks for the info, Moonshadow,
I just read somewhere about harlequin hiring ghostwriters, but I forgot where. Still 3k for advance. Wow.
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moonshadow68
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No problem. They have a ton of information on their website about what exactly they are looking for and which product lines accept submissions
without an agent. A lot of their titles are very short--only about 55K words.
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Michy
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Everything I've heard about Harlequin says that the writers have to sign 4-book contracts, where they are guaranteed 10k per book, but they have a
year to write all four. The advance I don't know about - I just know they guarantee between the advance and the royalties that they pay 10k per book
for four books.
I did the math on it once, and I figure for as short as the books are and how they do their editing process and such, four Harlequin books per year is
do-able, for 40k a year, plus whatever more you might make if they do better than that. It's a do-able living for a woman who is married and is doing
it as a second income.
It's not necessarily do-able for a writer relying on it solely for income for a family though, but in my mind, it beats schlepping articles at 3 bucks
a pop too. Then again, some people don't like writing fiction as much.
Love and stuff,
Michy
~~Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations~~
Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." James R. Cook
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Melanie
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That's it. I'm learning how to write romance novels.
Melanie
"Go forth boldly in the direction of your dreams." Thoreau
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Going Forth Boldly -- The Chronicle of Becoming a Professional Fiction Writer
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rudy2
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That's what I'm saying.
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czechwizard
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Ladies and gentlemen, after all these comments and insightful info, I wish somebody volunteered to ghostwrite my stuff. For curiosity's sake, I'd like
to compare the sales, seriously.
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Michy
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| Quote: Originally posted by Skwerly | I would like to be recognized for my work. The whole idea of ghostwriting a book for someone else turns me off completely. That's like playing the
drums for a popular recording artist but watching the other guy tour. NO way. I understand that some folks have really interesting things to say and
don't have what it takes to pen a
The entire idea horrifies me somewhat. I'm with Michy. I want to make a living, but you can keep that avenue. Whoever was paying would have to
start at $20,000 and move up from there with their negotiations with me, and somehow that doesn't seem very realistic. I imagine it's more like 3 or
5k for that kind of thing, but I could be wrong.
I mean, if you write well enough to have stuff published, why not just write it and get it published, experiencing the full monetary gain? Baffling
to me. |
Derek, when I first started writing for a living, I did some ghostwriting on some ebooks and such, and I made between 2-8k per ebook to write the
stuff - mostly dating and making money type stuff.
Later on and somewhat recently, I used to ghostwrite for this lady who wrote on alternative relationship stuff. I wrote two ebooks - dating guides for
gays and lesbians - and some poly stuff too for her. She paid quite well. Unfortunately, she's not doing that stuff anymore. But when I wrote for her,
I didn't mind it too much since it was mostly stuff I wouldn't have wanted to write under my own name anyway.
The folks who write on the teams for Patterson's novels or ghostwriters for famous authors - I'm not sure if that's something I'd be willing to do -
to watch a book get sold, someone else getting the fame and money... I don't know. I just couldn't live with that.
Love and stuff,
Michy
~~Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations~~
Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." James R. Cook
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twnkltoz
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I don't think I really have time, but I have to say, if someone offered me enough, I'd do it. I need the money. If I were making enough that I didn't
need to worry about money, I could be more discriminatory. If I wrote a best seller for someone, well, I'd be pretty darned bummed not to have my name
on it, but I'd know what I did at least.
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WNed
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| Quote: | The folks who write on the teams for Patterson's novels or ghostwriters for famous authors - I'm not sure if that's something I'd be willing to do -
to watch a book get sold, someone else getting the fame and money... I don't know. I just couldn't live with that.
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To flip that around for a moment... if I were the one with my name on the book, having to do the TV circuit, talking up the book,
knowing I had little or nothing to do with actually telling the story myself, I'd never be comfortable looking in the mirror. Sure, I can already see
the comments about crying all the way to the bank, but I abhor the idea of living as such a fraud... or even a has-been waiting to be found out.
Ned
I tried mature, rational, adult. Read the end of Don Quixote to see how that worked out.
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Michy
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Ned, I completely agree with that aspect of it too - one of the things that makes it slightly different is that it's not a secret that Patterson uses
other writers, and sometimes he even shares the credit with him. They know and he knows he's a figurehead with a name. He's okay with that - I'm not
sure it's really a 'bad' thing, though it's not something I would want to do.
Love and stuff,
Michy
~~Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations~~
Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." James R. Cook
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padre art
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| Quote: Originally posted by Michy | | Quote: Originally posted by Skwerly | I would like to be recognized for my work. The whole idea of ghostwriting a book for someone else turns me off completely. That's like playing the
drums for a popular recording artist but watching the other guy tour. NO way. I understand that some folks have really interesting things to say and
don't have what it takes to pen a
The entire idea horrifies me somewhat. I'm with Michy. I want to make a living, but you can keep that avenue. Whoever was paying would have to
start at $20,000 and move up from there with their negotiations with me, and somehow that doesn't seem very realistic. I imagine it's more like 3 or
5k for that kind of thing, but I could be wrong.
I mean, if you write well enough to have stuff published, why not just write it and get it published, experiencing the full monetary gain? Baffling
to me. |
Derek, when I first started writing for a living, I did some ghostwriting on some ebooks and such, and I made between 2-8k per ebook to write the
stuff - mostly dating and making money type stuff.
Later on and somewhat recently, I used to ghostwrite for this lady who wrote on alternative relationship stuff. I wrote two ebooks - dating guides for
gays and lesbians - and some poly stuff too for her. She paid quite well. Unfortunately, she's not doing that stuff anymore. But when I wrote for her,
I didn't mind it too much since it was mostly stuff I wouldn't have wanted to write under my own name anyway.
The folks who write on the teams for Patterson's novels or ghostwriters for famous authors - I'm not sure if that's something I'd be willing to do -
to watch a book get sold, someone else getting the fame and money... I don't know. I just couldn't live with that.
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Then there are the millions of people around the world that diligently do their jobs with little or no recognition for more or less adequate pay. In
terms of keeping the wheels spinning some of them are very important, to computer users for example, yet they will not be doing tours and signing
autographs.
When I made teeth it was as part of a team and getting more than professional recognition wasn't expected. As an entertainer (radio) or professional
winemaker the recognition was part of the package.
Writing seems to be going through a transition period. Many companies are farming out articles to writing sweatshops and instructing them to assemble
the pre-optimized 'units' for specific keywords (including headline and subhead instructions for keyword repetition). Completed articles are sent to
a professional writer for editing, fact checking and re-writing.
Not much chance of personal branding in that atmosphere.
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WNed
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| Quote: | Writing seems to be going through a transition period. Many companies are farming out articles to writing sweatshops and instructing them to assemble
the pre-optimized 'units' for specific keywords (including headline and subhead instructions for keyword repetition). Completed articles are sent to a
professional writer for editing, fact checking and re-writing.
Not much chance of personal branding in that atmosphere. |
Yay! We've re-invented the Medieval monastery for the digital age!
Ned
I tried mature, rational, adult. Read the end of Don Quixote to see how that worked out.
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padre art
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Would it be a pun to mention that H.P. Lovecraft did at least one 'ghostwriting' job.
Don't know how much he made but the name that appeared as author on the short story was a famous one; Harry Houdini. 
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rudy2
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| Quote: Originally posted by WNed | | Quote: | The folks who write on the teams for Patterson's novels or ghostwriters for famous authors - I'm not sure if that's something I'd be willing to do -
to watch a book get sold, someone else getting the fame and money... I don't know. I just couldn't live with that.
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To flip that around for a moment... if I were the one with my name on the book, having to do the TV circuit, talking up the book,
knowing I had little or nothing to do with actually telling the story myself, I'd never be comfortable looking in the mirror. Sure, I can already see
the comments about crying all the way to the bank, but I abhor the idea of living as such a fraud... or even a has-been waiting to be found out.
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Milli Vanilli comes to mind, when you put it like that.
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