Dan_Hensley
Founding Member
Posts: 716
Registered: 1/17/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Gun Safety In Our Communities
By now, many people know that the Chicago gun ban has been heard by the U.S. Supreme Court. The high court will make their ruling in June.
I would like to take a moment to ask people to consider several facts. We are not living in the dark ages where people have to hunt for their food,
and the old argument about protecting one self has gotten old.
Our leaders have long ignored the fact that the 2nd amendment is outdated and needs to be re-written so as to catch up with the current day.
Private citizens have only to submit to a background check to have a gun, and are not required to undergo any sort of training to be safe and
proficient with their weapons. security professionals only have to have to undergo 40 hours of training and are then called competent to handle a
weapon in an emergency, and yet, police officers undergo 480 hours of training. military members undergo even more training than police when it comes
to weapons.
Do YOU really want untrained citizens having guns? The decision to pull a gun or even pull a trigger cannot be taken back. If the police and military
members are known to sometimes make a mistake even with all their training, how easy is it for a citizen to make a mistake?
It's time to re-think whether or not the supreme Court has made their rulings on the 2nd amendment in haste, and ask Congress to over-rule the Supreme
Court. Just because a bunch of mentally ill, gun loving nuts make guns popular doesn't mean it's a right.
Guns are clearly only meant for the destruction of life, and the public has a right to not be forced to put up with guns. The second amendment forces
those of us who want nothing to do with guns to live in communities where unqualified people have them, and that is a violation of the right of the
public to be safe and secure in their daily lives.
All of the talk about protecting oneself is paranoia based on the fact that the NRA nuts cannot name one specific person or one specific circumstance
from which they are protecting themselves. If you aren't a criminal engaging in criminal acts, then you have no reason to think someone is going to
harm you and therefore, you have no need for a gun.
Who have gun loving Americans pissed off so much that they need to arm themselves? This has gotten ridiculous!
If you can find it in your conscience, please write to your congressmen and representatives any any other elected official and ask them to repeal the
2nd amendment. It is the only way to stop gun violence, and stop the national obsession with guns. Let's make sure only trained, qualified people have
guns.
One idea for making people with guns safer was to have psych testing. The problem with this is that no amount of testing for mental stability can
predict when a gun owner may become unstable and reach for their gun in an unstable moment. No one can reliably predict when a law abiding citizen
with a gun will become a felon by misusing their gun.
At least the police and military have rules for accountability with a weapon, and laws in place for misuse of a weapon. If a civillian misuses a
weapon they are simply slapped on the hand and told not to do it again.
Help our nation do away with guns and let's repeal the 2nd amendment!
|
|
|
Heather
Accentuate Writer!
Posts: 868
Registered: 6/15/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pleased
|
|
Sorry, Dan, but I have to disagree. I'm a stay at home mom with a traveling husband and i'm pregnant. When I took my 18 month old hiking yesterday
you'd better believe I was carrying a loaded weapon on my hip. There's no way I'm going down like Chelsea King or Amber Dubois without so much as a
chance at defending myself. And creeps are one thing--I don't want to run into a bobcat or a wild boar on the trail. I have to protect myself and my
family.
I think you are very presumptuous when you assume that people just go out and buy guns without any firearms training. Sure, some people do that, but
in order to not end up in prison one must carry a license to carry a concealed firearm. You can't get that permit without taking a firearms safety
class. As for shotguns and other large, non-concealable weapons, have you ever seen someone at the mall carrying one around? Not likely. People with
those weapons use them for hunting, and hunting skills are generally passed down from generation to generation. I haven't met anyone more
knowledgeable about gun safety and respect than the generations who came before me.
Don't cross this mom cause I will shoot and I hit my target every time.
|
|
|
moonshadow68
Founding Member/Moderator
Posts: 4997
Registered: 1/17/2008
Location: Southern Illinois
Member Is Offline
Mood: Busy, busy bee
|
|
I'm with Heather on this one. I don't own a gun simply because I do not know how to use it. But if we could find a good training program and firing
range near here, we would buy a gun and get trained to use it. The police response time to my house, even in my tiny community, is about 10
minutes--when there is an officer on duty and yet I operate a largely cash-based business. Thankfully, most crooks are too dumb to realize that.
I also know hunters who kill things and eat them. I'm not about to take away their right to do so. And, more than anything, I believe in what the
founding fathers meant when that amendment was added to the Constitution. Every day I see the freedoms of my country slipping away and I would not be
surprised to see the need for a full revolution in my life time.
And, I might need a shotgun to kill zombies--I'm just sayin'.
What we need is to enforce the gun laws we have. To stop the theft of guns from law-abiding citizens and get guns out of the hands of criminals.
You know what the lowest crime countries in the world are? Look at Switzerland's crime rate. Wanna know why? Becuase every person in the country
has mandatory military service and owns a gun. A lot less burglaries would occur if people owned guns and criminals knew it.
|
|
|
Melanie
Founding Member
Posts: 4632
Registered: 1/17/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: In the inquisition chamber with the killer.
|
|
I think it would be impossible to get all the guns out of the country, except for police and military. It would also increase unemployment.  No one has managed to get guns away from the criminals yet. So, what's a law-abiding
citizen to do?
All this gun regulation keeps guns away from people who would be responsible gun owners, not criminals.
|
|
|
Dan_Hensley
Founding Member
Posts: 716
Registered: 1/17/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hiking on a trail does not give a person a need for a gun. Killing people and animals is not a valid argument here. If a wild animal approaches you,
you need to respect that animal and simply walk away. Killing animals disrupts our ecosystem, which is already rapidly crumbling.
The second amendment was written for people of a past generation who had a real everyday fear of losing their rights to an unstable, and still growing
government. The law needs to keep up with the times, and these days do not show a need for anyoine to have a gun.
The self-defense argument doesn't hold up in anyone's eyes because if you were dumb enough to attract attention to yourself, then you deserve what
happens. There is a cause and effect relationship in the reality of life, and again, please show why we are all at great risk from the dangerous
criminals if none of us are out here acting like criminals ourselves?
Criminals prey on people who are involved with them in some way and know enough that someone could end up in jail if the crime and evidence were
discovered, and everyone has a right against self - incrimination.
Take common-sense precautions and you won't be a crime victim! A gun is not a common sense precaution. If anyone were to ever pull a gun on me based
on perception alone, let me tell ya I'm gonna make sure they go straight to jail.
We love guns too much, and there is no evidence that there is any real need for self-defense. Until evidence is shown. The police response time is
also not a valid argument because it is a local problem isolated to one area or another. You have things in your house that make great weapons
already, which negates the presence of a gun...use those things available to you if something happens.
Guns got to go!
|
|
|
boatkicker
Accentuate Writer!
Posts: 831
Registered: 6/27/2009
Location: Dennis, Massachusetts!
Member Is Offline
Mood: sick of the hiccups!
|
|
My fiance's grandmother carry a gun. It once saved her.
She was at her sons house. He had gone out hunting that morning, and she was waiting for him to come back. Someone broke into the house, and was
trying to take something or other, when Martha came into the room and told him to drop it and get out. He pulled out a knife. She pulled out her gun.
He left.
Funny thing is, he left before she even had a chance to load the gun.
Maybe it just saved her son a little money. Maybe it saved her from getting a scar from the knife, but hey, maybe he would have stabbed her in just
the right place that she died. Either way, it saved something.
That said, I wouldn't trust myself with a gun. I'm clumsy and forgetful. Combined, those things can be dangerous with a gun. Even if I took years of
training, I would be too scared.
|
|
|
Thomas Forthe (Tom)
Literary Master
Posts: 4721
Registered: 10/10/2008
Location: almost certainly
Member Is Offline
Mood: persnickative
|
|
I really appreciate being called mentally ill... thanks Dan. I have owned guns for as long as I was legally able to do so. I have known hundreds of
gun owners, and neither myself or any of them have ever shot anyone. I am afraid your theory is full of holes. Gun owners have to go through a federal
screening to legally purchase one, and any hunter has to take hunters safety courses to buy a license. I have known many people in the military and
they for the most part spent very little time training or practicing. The people I know that own guns spend a lot of time with them, probably far more
than you realize.
It is my right to own them, so since you want them banned are your rights more important than mine? Sounds like you think so. If I do not own a gun I
have no chance of defending my family from any criminal that does have one.
Read the facts... cars kill far more people every year than guns do. Are you going to lobby to take away all of our vehicles next? Law abiding
citizens owning guns are not a problem, law abiding citizens owning cars are also not a problem, People that do not abide by the law are the
problem.
Your analogy is the same as saying some people are writing short stories that show mentally unstable people ways to get away with murder, so lets take
away all of the word processors.
"Two things are infinite; The universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein
|
|
|
Heather
Accentuate Writer!
Posts: 868
Registered: 6/15/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pleased
|
|
I have a rebuttal for every one of the paragraphs in your last post, but I know you won't change my way of thinking and I won't change yours.
The quoted statement above is extremely frightening to me. Consider these women:
Nicole Ganguzza - killed by a stranger while jogging
Isabelle Dube - killed by a bear while jogging
Sue Stottmeister - killed by a stranger while jogging
Amber Dubois - killed by a stranger while walking
Chelsea King - killed by a stranger while jogging
None of these women were dumb. They were jogging. They were not "attracting attention" to themselves.
Your misguided statement is the same as saying a woman deserved to get raped because she wore a short skirt.
The cops were not there to rescue them. Nobody was. They died. I'm not going to be like them.
|
|
|
moonshadow68
Founding Member/Moderator
Posts: 4997
Registered: 1/17/2008
Location: Southern Illinois
Member Is Offline
Mood: Busy, busy bee
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Dan_Hensley  | ... there is no evidence that there is any real need for self-defense.
...You have things in your house that make great weapons already, which negates the presence of a gun...use those things available to you if something
happens.
|
Seriously, Dan?
There is no need for self-defense, or the defense of our families? Really? I understand you live in the city, but if a bobcat tries to attack Henry,
Heather will damn well shoot it. Animals that suffered from environmental destruction and loss of habit do attack randomly. Children are stolen by
pedophiles and others regularly.
At least in this part of the state, people on Meth rob random people regularly. They don't care about the consequences, only the next high.
The police response time doesn't matter because its an isolated problem? Maybe not to you. To anyone facing a meth-head or other would be attacker,
it matters. And, no I don't have other things in my home that are appropriate weapons. My frying pan might crack a skull, but I'd have to get within
arms reach of the criminal to use it.
Maybe in the city you don't know people who still hunt for food, but I do. My brother puts a deer in freezer every winterr, if he's lucky, to feed
his family for the fall. Running to the corner store isn't a good option in a county with 20 percent unemployment rate (just outside Detroit).
Ultimately, the way you feel about guns is a personal decision, but you NEVER have the right to call other people names or question their sanity
because they chose to do things differently. Generally, when people must all assimilate we call that tyranny and that, above all else, is why people
need guns.
|
|
|
Melanie
Founding Member
Posts: 4632
Registered: 1/17/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: In the inquisition chamber with the killer.
|
|
I'm not about to run out and get a gun. I don't think I really have much use for it, and getting one in NJ is quite difficult, at least legally.
However, I think it is rather naive, or just plain mean, to say things like, | Quote: | | Take common-sense precautions and you won't be a crime victim! |
.
Common sense precautions like what? Never going on a walk at the park?
|
|
|
Dan_Hensley
Founding Member
Posts: 716
Registered: 1/17/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Heather and Tom, you guys are manipulating the discussion. Nothing I said even implied that a woman deserves to get raped because she is wearing a
short skirt (Heather's words).
I cannot and will not comment on the victims Heather mentioned simply because I do not know the details of their cases. Tom used the old cars and
other things are more dangerous than guns argument, and it doesn't hold water, let alone dust.
I am part of a larger number of people who have proven that guns only keep violence and intimidation alive. Anyone who wants a gun "for self -
defense" is saying two things: "I want people to be afraid of me because I am a person who is insecure in my life" and "I have teh right to kill
anyone whom I perceive to be threatening, so I am now judge, jury and executioner". Having a gun is about power, an imbalance of power, and control
over another person whom you have no rights to control.
There is no evidence that a gun owner is a more responsible, safe person than a person who chooses not to own a gun and lives life just fine without a
gun in the house. Answer that question and you'll have proven that gun ownership is a right that is needed on an everyday basis, versus an out-moded
insane political agenda.
Women have a higher rate of being a victim of violence when they have a partner whom has a gun in the house. If it is teh woman who owns the gun, she
is still at risk because that gun can be turned against her at any time should the man in the house become violent.
We again need to address the rights of the people to live in a gun free community, and live far apart from guns and gun owners. When it comes to
having a gun to protect against animals...you're talking about ending the life of an animal who lives outdoors and it's only instinct is to hunt.
That's what animals do, that's the way they survive. When we started encroaching on animal habitat, it is we who caused the human vs. animal conflict,
and it is we who have to take responsibility for that.
One thing I would like to see, similar to the sex offender list, is a public list of gun owners with their photos and addresses so that way, those
people in the community who wish to avoid those people, may do so.
Guns and gun owners are a menace to the peace and the rights of others. The only way to equal out each others rights is to get rid of the second
amendment so as to have an equal ground with each other. When no one has a gun, we are all equals.
I want to reiterate my point that there is no way to predict when an otherwise stable, law abiding, gun owner will become unstable and use their gun
for unlawful ends. Until that can be fixed, we need to do away with guns, and gun rights altogether.
|
|
|
Melanie
Founding Member
Posts: 4632
Registered: 1/17/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: In the inquisition chamber with the killer.
|
|
You know what, Dan, I agree with you on some things. I think it would be fabulous to live in a totally gun-free world. But... how? Police aren't
making much headway at getting guns off the streets, if they are making any headway at all. Should gun manufacturer's be simply taken over by the
government?
And I do agree that the encroachment on animal habitats is what increases all the problems with animal threat, or perceived animal threat. Again, how
do we solve it? If a lion comes into my backyard because someone built a condo on its home turf, and pounces on my kid, what do you expect people to
do? Quickly call a town meeting to discuss zoning ordinances?
| Quote: | | "I want people to be afraid of me because I am a person who is insecure in my life" and "I have teh right to kill anyone whom I perceive to be
threatening, so I am now judge, jury and executioner". |
I do not agree with this in many cases. I think a lot of people do get guns to be 'the big man' or fearsome. I think a lot of people get guns because
they are scared, sure, and many have good reason to be. How do you give those people who are insecure in their lives the confidence to not want a gun?
The only thing I could think of is getting rid of criminals who have guns... and those who don't... but that's not really going very well.
How about "I have the right to defend myself against anyone who threatens my life, or the lives of those in my family?" Do you agree with that? Or do
you think people who are threatened with imminent harm should just close their eyes and pray, perhaps?
[Edited on 9-3-2010 by Melanie]
[Edited on 9-3-2010 by Melanie]
|
|
|
Thomas Forthe (Tom)
Literary Master
Posts: 4721
Registered: 10/10/2008
Location: almost certainly
Member Is Offline
Mood: persnickative
|
|
Dan now you are putting words in my mouth, and since you are being unreasonable in your crusade to be the only opinion allowed I will withdraw from
your tirade.
"Two things are infinite; The universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein
|
|
|
Skwerly
Literary Master
Posts: 3327
Registered: 5/17/2008
Location: Yucaipa, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Determined.
|
|
Agreed. If one thing he said made sense, I'd chime in. It doesn't, and *obviously* doesn't, so that's that.
Walk away from wild animals lol. Guy's a comedian.
I seemed to be looking down from an immense height upon a twilit grotto, knee-deep with filth, where a white-bearded daemon swineherd drove about
with his staff a flock of fungous, flabby beasts whose appearance filled me with unutterable loathing.
My AC page:
Derek's Junk
My Horror Writing Forum: http://writersofhorror.myfreeforum.org/index.php
I **love** creepy trees!
|
|
|
boatkicker
Accentuate Writer!
Posts: 831
Registered: 6/27/2009
Location: Dennis, Massachusetts!
Member Is Offline
Mood: sick of the hiccups!
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Dan_Hensley |
The self-defense argument doesn't hold up in anyone's eyes because if you were dumb enough to attract attention to yourself, then you deserve what
happens.
|
All you have to do to attract someone's attention is be alone. If there isn't anyone else around, there isn't much for any criminal to look at but
you. Should we all travel in groups now? Is it acceptable to be attacked because you happened to run to the store to get milk and crossed the parking
lot all alone? That's not right Dan, and I know people who that has happened to. She went to the store, and was attacked in the parking lot. Beat up
and mugged. Now I'm not saying we should all carry guns when we go to buy a loaf of bread or something, but people certainly don't deserve to be
attacked because they attract someones attention.
| Quote: Originally posted by Dan_Hensley | When it comes to having a gun to protect against animals...you're talking about ending the life of an animal who lives outdoors and it's only
instinct is to hunt. That's what animals do, that's the way they survive. When we started encroaching on animal habitat, it is we who caused the human
vs. animal conflict, and it is we who have to take responsibility for that.
|
Coyote populations where I am from are nearly twice what they were 500 years ago, because someone thought it would be a brilliant idea to make them a
protected species. The only reason they can even support a population that high is because of humans. They eat our pets, garbage, and on occasion
children. AND they have significantly lowered some of the other native animals by being so much more common. They can't sustain themselves without
killing things that shouldn't be killed. I say, kill the coyotes and put the population back where it naturally belongs.
I was once almost attacked. My father happened to be there and came at it with a 2x4. He whacked it in the head hard enough to knock it out or kill it
or who knows what (I went inside and called animal control and didn't go back out again.....) Should my father not have attacked it because it's not
the animal's fault that it wanted to kill me?
|
|
|
ink4hyre
Member Writer
Posts: 55
Registered: 5/22/2009
Location: Mountains of NW Arizona
Member Is Offline
Mood: Determined
|
|
Usually I'm pretty good about biting my tongue, but when ignorance and stupidity rear their ugly heads...
Aw, never mind. I'd just be wasting my time.
Enough said!
|
|
|
Randy Inman
Literary Master
Posts: 2501
Registered: 1/17/2008
Location: NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
When criminal bastards leave people alone THEN defending yourself will get old. Until then we should have the right to do so. Liberals make me toss
cookies.
|
|
|
Randy Inman
Literary Master
Posts: 2501
Registered: 1/17/2008
Location: NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Dan_Hensley | By now, many people know that the Chicago gun ban has been heard by the U.S. Supreme Court. The high court will make their ruling in June.
I would like to take a moment to ask people to consider several facts. We are not living in the dark ages where people have to hunt for their food,
and the old argument about protecting one self has gotten old.
Our leaders have long ignored the fact that the 2nd amendment is outdated and needs to be re-written so as to catch up with the current day.
Private citizens have only to submit to a background check to have a gun, and are not required to undergo any sort of training to be safe and
proficient with their weapons. security professionals only have to have to undergo 40 hours of training and are then called competent to handle a
weapon in an emergency, and yet, police officers undergo 480 hours of training. military members undergo even more training than police when it comes
to weapons.
Do YOU really want untrained citizens having guns? The decision to pull a gun or even pull a trigger cannot be taken back. If the police and military
members are known to sometimes make a mistake even with all their training, how easy is it for a citizen to make a mistake?
It's time to re-think whether or not the supreme Court has made their rulings on the 2nd amendment in haste, and ask Congress to over-rule the Supreme
Court. Just because a bunch of mentally ill, gun loving nuts make guns popular doesn't mean it's a right.
Guns are clearly only meant for the destruction of life, and the public has a right to not be forced to put up with guns. The second amendment forces
those of us who want nothing to do with guns to live in communities where unqualified people have them, and that is a violation of the right of the
public to be safe and secure in their daily lives.
All of the talk about protecting oneself is paranoia based on the fact that the NRA nuts cannot name one specific person or one specific circumstance
from which they are protecting themselves. If you aren't a criminal engaging in criminal acts, then you have no reason to think someone is going to
harm you and therefore, you have no need for a gun.
Who have gun loving Americans pissed off so much that they need to arm themselves? This has gotten ridiculous!
If you can find it in your conscience, please write to your congressmen and representatives any any other elected official and ask them to repeal the
2nd amendment. It is the only way to stop gun violence, and stop the national obsession with guns. Let's make sure only trained, qualified people have
guns.
One idea for making people with guns safer was to have psych testing. The problem with this is that no amount of testing for mental stability can
predict when a gun owner may become unstable and reach for their gun in an unstable moment. No one can reliably predict when a law abiding citizen
with a gun will become a felon by misusing their gun.
At least the police and military have rules for accountability with a weapon, and laws in place for misuse of a weapon. If a civillian misuses a
weapon they are simply slapped on the hand and told not to do it again.
Help our nation do away with guns and let's repeal the 2nd amendment! |
Now that I am done cussing at what I read I will try to do a more adult response.
I have been a gun owner since I was (gasp) 12 years old or younger. I was shot at when I was 14 for daring to walk across my yard when a neighbor who
had a beef with my dad was out on one of his rampages. Yep I was acting real criminal.
I once was robbed while working in a store, trying to support my family. Recently I saw the guy who robbed me beat the crap out of my neighbor. Yep he
got out early and continues his life of crime. But that is ok my neighbor is a craphead too who told me only the fear of me shooting him keeps him
from kicking my ass for the hell of it.
One thing this thread has cleared my head about. I was going to let my NRA membership lapse due to money issues. I will not do that now. America needs
to be protected from thinking like yours.
|
|
|
Heather
Accentuate Writer!
Posts: 868
Registered: 6/15/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pleased
|
|
Oh, targeted advertising, you slay me. Check out the banner ad that just appeared at the top of this page.
In case anyone needs a lesson.
|
|
|
Heather
Accentuate Writer!
Posts: 868
Registered: 6/15/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pleased
|
|
Oh wait, it just got better!
|
|
|
JoeRaisin
Jr. Member Writer
Posts: 37
Registered: 2/23/2010
Location: Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
Some questions:
| Quote: | Heather and Tom, you guys are manipulating the discussion. Nothing I said even implied that a woman deserves to get raped because she is wearing a
short skirt (Heather's words).
I cannot and will not comment on the victims Heather mentioned simply because I do not know the details of their cases. Tom used the old cars and
other things are more dangerous than guns argument, and it doesn't hold water, let alone dust. |
But it is true that more people due to reckless or illegal use of vehicles than firearms. In what way does that not hold water?
| Quote: | | I am part of a larger number of people who have proven that guns only keep violence and intimidation alive. |
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around that one. How have you and this larger group proven your assertion?
| Quote: | | Anyone who wants a gun "for self - defense" is saying two things: "I want people to be afraid of me because I am a person who is insecure in my life"
and "I have teh right to kill anyone whom I perceive to be threatening, so I am now judge, jury and executioner". Having a gun is about power, an
imbalance of power, and control over another person whom you have no rights to control. |
Most of those I know who carry on a regular basis do not advertise their gun ownership. What I believe they are saying is, “I refuse to allow myself
or my family to be victimized, injured or killed because someone who wishes to do so may be larger or better armed than I.”
When it comes to life and death situations, don't you WANT the imbalance of power to be in your favor?
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
| Quote: | | There is no evidence that a gun owner is a more responsible, safe person than a person who chooses not to own a gun and lives life just fine without a
gun in the house. |
Are you saying that there is evidence that non-gun owners are the more responsible group? Cite.
| Quote: | | Answer that question and you'll have proven that gun ownership is a right that is needed on an everyday basis, versus an out-moded insane political
agenda. |
| Quote: | | Women have a higher rate of being a victim of violence when they have a partner whom has a gun in the house. If it is teh woman who owns the gun, she
is still at risk because that gun can be turned against her at any time should the man in the house become violent. |
The vast majority of such attacks are preceded by years of other types of violence. In many cases, the perpetrator also has a history of other
criminal or violent behavior. I my state, conviction of any domestic violence offense means a person cannot legally own or even possess a firearm of
any type.
| Quote: | | We again need to address the rights of the people to live in a gun free community, and live far apart from guns and gun owners.
|
Are you aware that virtually all mass shootings take place in gun free zones? Not that they aren't attempted in other places, but the perpetrator is
stopped far sooner if someone else is there with a gun.
| Quote: | | When it comes to having a gun to protect against animals...you're talking about ending the life of an animal who lives outdoors and it's only instinct
is to hunt. That's what animals do, that's the way they survive. When we started encroaching on animal habitat, it is we who caused the human vs.
animal conflict, and it is we who have to take responsibility for that. |
So, what? We should stand by quietly and allow a coyote to rip out our child's throat? Abandon any place that gets the odd black bear wandering in?
Seriously, how would you resolve this other than a generic platitude?
| Quote: | | One thing I would like to see, similar to the sex offender list, is a public list of gun owners with their photos and addresses so that way, those
people in the community who wish to avoid those people, may do so. |
It would work like the Alarm System signs and stickers – burglars and home invaders would just know which victims to avoid. It would make their
chosen profession a lot safer for them.
| Quote: | | Guns and gun owners are a menace to the peace and the rights of others. |
Do you realize that in certain states, mine being one of them, any time you are out in public there is a 1 in 4 (or greater) chance that the person
next to you is armed? You probably rub elbows with an armed person everyday regardless of the state you live in.
Can you explain why we haven't experienced a bloodbath yet?
| Quote: | | The only way to equal out each others rights is to get rid of the second amendment so as to have an equal ground with each other. When no one has a
gun, we are all equals. |
Yeah! And people who speak out in favor of guns use propaganda and deceitful advertisement and need to be silenced so we should do something about
the misunderstanding of the first amendment. The speech part was intended by our framers to be only meant for legitimate news services. We need to
have those services identified and make everyone else shut up.
There could still be problems though. We all know that, despite the laws passed, there will be those who will try to hide a gun. The fourth
amendment will get in the way of ferreting out these evil illegal firearms so we need to abolish that one as well, at least as it applies to
firearms... well, and maybe some other stuff we might identify in the future.
The longer one of those insane gun owners is off the street that better – so we should institute massive bails on such cases and prosecutors can use
any manner of tricks to keep shuffling them to the back of the line docket-wise. But we'll have to do something about those darned eighth and sixth
amendments.
But, hey – all that should be easy after the second amendment is gone. Once we successfully tamper with the bill of rights, the precedent will have
been set.
| Quote: | | I want to reiterate my point that there is no way to predict when an otherwise stable, law abiding, gun owner will become unstable and use their gun
for unlawful ends. Until that can be fixed, we need to do away with guns, and gun rights altogether. |
And knives, bows/arrows, slingshots, spear guns, spears, axes, hatchets, machetes, baseball bats, lead pipes, lengths of re-bar, bricks, rocks, and
all other generic blunt objects. You know, just in case someone becomes unstable and wants to use any of these to kill someone else.
Oh, and pillows! Folks have used pillows to suffocate people in their beds – you never know when your spouse might tip off the deep end in the middle
of the night. We need to get rid of pillows...
Seriously though, a gun is a tool. Admittedly it is one can be deadly when misused so I have no problem with strict laws governing such misuse. But
mere ownership doesn't fit that category.
Penn and Teller had an interesting episode of their show:
Part One
Part Two
Part Three
|
|
|
ink4hyre
Member Writer
Posts: 55
Registered: 5/22/2009
Location: Mountains of NW Arizona
Member Is Offline
Mood: Determined
|
|
March 10, 2010 | 8:06 am
Authorities searched Wednesday for three armed attackers who a 7-year-old boy said broke into his family's Norwalk home and threatened his parents as
he hid in a bathroom with his 6-year-old sister and called 911.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/03/police-search-for-arm...
Repeal the 2nd amendement? You got to be out of your mind.
Partner...you'd better wake up and smell what your shovelin'.
|
|
|
Dan_Hensley
Founding Member
Posts: 716
Registered: 1/17/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Everyone askiong me to "cite" this and that is being asked at this time to do the homework in your respective states on your own, simply because it
would not be efficient for me to list every single stat there is, and every case of gun misuse (violence with a gun), etc.
Let's take a look at the second amendment:
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
Prior to this statement, this amendment mentions a well regulated militia. The Courts of our country have typically interpreted the usage of
terminology of "the people" to mean "the people elected to represent the interests of their respective legislative districts, or those who are
appointed to represent the interests of the people of their legislative districts."
You have to be appointed to be a member of the militia, hence the raising of the right hand and reciting an oath to protect the constitution of the
United States, etc.
Police Officers take this oath, as do congressmen, state representatives, and presidents elect. Volunteer members of fire departments and volunteer
public safety departments also take this oath.
After watching Penn and Teller, I have to say these men are really in need of psychiatric help and a re-education on how to read the law and how to
live in modern society. Cars and oter objects that are used as weapons have nothing in reality that will tie them to the issue of firearms / sidearms
/ guns / projectile firing devices.
As to the issue of any specific right to self defense, I don't see that specifically written into our Federal Constitution nor in the 27 amendments
that make up the Bill Of Rights. Our forefathers left that out because they obviously recognized that everyone has to die at some time, and that there
is no way in any reality to guarantee life with complete safety.
When you are born, and you live life, you have to assume the risk to your safety from all sorts of things and it just has to be lived with. In the
end, rights are not really rights per say, they are mere guidelines and privileges, and the word privilege IS in the constitution and in the bill of
rights.
The words "right" and "privilege" are used interchangeably with each other, and truly makes for a sloppy, un-educated, meaningless document from the
legal perspective. Guns are therefore, NOT a right but a mere privilege that has been abused time and time again. When rights or privileges are
abused, manipulated, misused, and so forth they have to be restricted or even completely taken away for the greater good of all people. Consequences
must follow, and that means the only fair way to play is to take away the rights / privileges that are the most abused for everyone so as to keep from
being discriminatory.
The right to defend yourself, not being in existence but also being in conflict at the state and federal levels since the law takes a narrow view of
self-defense and also calls for a court to decide the matter in each case, how many times are you willing to be arrested and go to trial and pay for
legal defense in order to have a "right" to self-defense?
Scenario: John arrives home from work, he fumbles with his keys and gets attacked from behind. He cannot escape, so he draws his firearm, and kills
his attacker. Police arrive and follow procedure by taking John's gun, arresting John for murder, notifying the state's attorney / DA, they conduct
ballistics testing to match the bullet to the gun. John goes to trial and is found not guilty. John has a conviction on his record now (not guilty of
murder, but guilty of justifiable homicide) Justifiable Homicide is a criminal finding and carries a conviction status that stays on your record.
John now cannot find a job and his HOA decides they don't want him there anymore because he killed someone, regardless of the circumstances, so they
put a levy on his home and force him out. If you are an apartment renter, your landlord will surely evict you because you had a gun on the property
(most leases prohibit guns) and those that don't have language that gives the landlord the right to evict for violence regardless of circumstances.
End of scenario
Is that what you want to go through? Do you want to put your family through that? Do you want to subject your neighbors and others in the community
through that barbaric act? Don't you think we, the people who live in the real world deserve to be free from people who own guns and the presence of
guns altogether? I can tell you that I do not want anything to do with anyone who owns a gun and will not stay silent about my rights to be free from
guns in my community.
Please tell me which specific criminal people you want to defend yourselves from? I would like names, addresses, etc. Not every criminal is going to
re-offend, and in the end, even convicted criminals have the same rights as you and I. They have the right to not have a gun pointed at their faces
simply because they once did jail time.
Hopefully, we will see all privately owned guns destroyed one day, even if by federal and state force. How sweet that would be!
|
|
|
Ditchdoctor
Accentuate Writer!
Posts: 653
Registered: 9/15/2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Your arguments against gun ownership are flawed in so many ways I won't even attempt to single one of them out. The mere fact that everyone disagrees
with you should tell you something. Did you by any chance vote for Obama?
Don't let fear and common sense stand in your way.
|
|
|
moonshadow68
Founding Member/Moderator
Posts: 4997
Registered: 1/17/2008
Location: Southern Illinois
Member Is Offline
Mood: Busy, busy bee
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Ditchdoctor | | Your arguments against gun ownership are flawed in so many ways I won't even attempt to single one of them out. The mere fact that everyone disagrees
with you should tell you something. Did you by any chance vote for Obama? |
Now dang it, Felipe, I voted for Obama. He was the lesser of two evils. Now I wish I hadn't voted
But voting for Obama does not mean I want my constitutional rights stripped away on soem silly hypothetical.
Yes, in some jurisdictions you could be convicted of justifiable homicide; in most the shooting would be ruled self-defense and there would be no
conviction.
What I do agree with Felipe and several others about, Dan, is that your arguments are so flawed as to amke it impossible to point to just one issue
that I have with them.
Ultimately, I stand by what I said in my very first response to this post. I believe, wholeheartedly, that the degredation of civil rights for
Americans and the collapse of society will necessitate that the average person be willing to lay down her life for the maintenance of her freedoms,
possibly within my lifetime. When it happens, I'm going to want to visit my friends who have guns, so I have better protection than a frying pan.
|
|
|
ink4hyre
Member Writer
Posts: 55
Registered: 5/22/2009
Location: Mountains of NW Arizona
Member Is Offline
Mood: Determined
|
|
Name specific criminals? See the link in my post above...
Did he vote for Obama? Hell I think they must be related!
|
|
|
boatkicker
Accentuate Writer!
Posts: 831
Registered: 6/27/2009
Location: Dennis, Massachusetts!
Member Is Offline
Mood: sick of the hiccups!
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Dan_Hensley |
Let's take a look at the second amendment:
Please tell me which specific criminal people you want to defend yourselves from? I would like names, addresses, etc. |
Specific criminals? You said in one of your earlier posts that any otherwise stable gun-owner could go crazy and shoot someone. Wouldn't the same
thing apply to non-gun-owners? If that's so than how can we know which specific criminals will be defended against?Well, I'll defend myself against
all of them. All the gun-owners who go crazy, and all the non-gun-owners who go crazy. If someone pulls a knife on me I'd like to have some sort of
'trump card.' If another coyote comes after me, I'd like to be able to not get eaten.
[Edited on 3/11/2010 by boatkicker]
|
|
|
Dan_Hensley
Founding Member
Posts: 716
Registered: 1/17/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
All of these fears are based on paranoia. No animals are going to eat anyone, and I doubt any criminals will ever be encountered in such a dramatic
fashion by anyone on this board.
One good way to remove guns from society would be to make gun ownership or activities with firearms a mental illness at the official level. Throw that
in the DSM, and when you are diagnosed, the state and feds will be forced by existing law to take your guns and your gun licenses.
|
|
|
Melanie
Founding Member
Posts: 4632
Registered: 1/17/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: In the inquisition chamber with the killer.
|
|
Asking for names and addresses of criminals sounds a lot like wanting proof that criminals actually exist. And not thinking criminals actually exist
is, forgive me, just plain dumb.
What do you do when someone pulls a gun on you? Or attacks you in some other way? Nothing? Because you don't want a 'justifiable homicide' on your
record?
I highly doubt anyone wants that, but I bet a lot more people would want that kind of record and legal trouble than they'd want to be dead, or raped
or for their loved ones to be killed in front of them.
IF there was a way to get rid of ALL guns, I would say, "Great! Go ahead then." But that's a lot of wishful thinking that doesn't do much good in the
real world.
|
|
|
Skwerly
Literary Master
Posts: 3327
Registered: 5/17/2008
Location: Yucaipa, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Determined.
|
|
Speaking of mental illness...
I seemed to be looking down from an immense height upon a twilit grotto, knee-deep with filth, where a white-bearded daemon swineherd drove about
with his staff a flock of fungous, flabby beasts whose appearance filled me with unutterable loathing.
My AC page:
Derek's Junk
My Horror Writing Forum: http://writersofhorror.myfreeforum.org/index.php
I **love** creepy trees!
|
|
|
Thomas Forthe (Tom)
Literary Master
Posts: 4721
Registered: 10/10/2008
Location: almost certainly
Member Is Offline
Mood: persnickative
|
|
I think Dan has proven that all he wants is an argument... He isn't making any sense, so why feed the fire?
"Two things are infinite; The universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein
|
|
|
DClore
Member Writer
Posts: 85
Registered: 10/24/2009
Location: St Joseph, Michigan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Grateful
|
|
T R O L L
Can we all say it together?
Don't feed the trolls. They will either starve or get so weak for lack of food that they will go elsewhere.
This one was obvious and easy. It came in with a big "I Am A Troll" sign all over it.
|
|
|
Ditchdoctor
Accentuate Writer!
Posts: 653
Registered: 9/15/2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Sorry Moonshadow, I shouldn't have brought Obama into this. Again, there are just too many flaws in this logic to single any out. I carry and prefer a
knife when I'm out and about, it does not create the same paranoia or legalities but will do the job.
Don't let fear and common sense stand in your way.
|
|
|
Randy Inman
Literary Master
Posts: 2501
Registered: 1/17/2008
Location: NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Good point. I am done with this thread and with anything he ever says again on any topic.
|
|
|
Dan_Hensley
Founding Member
Posts: 716
Registered: 1/17/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Yo, Randy! Don't boycott me just yet! This is just a spirited discussion in which I am presenting differing negative views on this through the eyes of
others. There are just so many opinion on this, and so many different mindsets from countless people.
Hang in there Randy and everyone!
|
|
|
Ditchdoctor
Accentuate Writer!
Posts: 653
Registered: 9/15/2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Dan_Hensley | Yo, Randy! Don't boycott me just yet! This is just a spirited discussion in which I am presenting differing negative views on this through the eyes of
others. There are just so many opinion on this, and so many different mindsets from countless people.
Hang in there Randy and everyone! |
A spirited one sided discussion it seems. Our founding fathers knew that the only thing that stood between ourselves and tyranny was an armed group of
people (citizens) that were willing to stand up against the government should it try to take our freedoms away as you are.
Al Gore stands and talks gun control while being guarded by a dozen or more CIA agents with Uzis at the ready. I do find it amusing that all of the
politicians who tout gun control wouldn't leave the house without gun toting guards to protect them.
America was founded on a well armed group of citizens who wanted to just be free, but were willing and able to fight back if need be.
Don't let fear and common sense stand in your way.
|
|
|
JoeRaisin
Jr. Member Writer
Posts: 37
Registered: 2/23/2010
Location: Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
Information from "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun," by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, in The Journal of
Criminal Law & Criminology, Northwestern University School of Law, Volume 86, Number 1, Fall, 1995
Gary Kleck once said he began the study very much against guns, what he discovered changed his mind.
According to the National Self Defense Survey conducted by Florida State University criminologists in 1994, the rate of Defensive Gun Uses can be
projected nationwide to approximately 2.5 million per year -- one Defensive Gun Use every 13 seconds.
Among 15.7% of gun defenders interviewed nationwide during The National Self Defense Survey, the defender believed that someone "almost certainly"
would have died had the gun not been used for protection -- a life saved by a privately held gun about once every 1.3 minutes. (In another 14.2%
cases, the defender believed someone "probably" would have died if the gun hadn't been used in defense.)
In 83.5% of these successful gun defenses, the attacker either threatened or used force first -- disproving the myth that having a gun available for
defense wouldn't make any difference.
In 91.7% of these incidents the defensive use of a gun did not wound or kill the criminal attacker (and the gun defense wouldn't be called
"newsworthy" by newspaper or TV news editors). In 64.2% of these gun-defense cases, the police learned of the defense, which means that the media
could also find out and report on them if they chose to.
In 73.4% of these gun-defense incidents, the attacker was a stranger to the intended victim. (Defenses against a family member or intimate were rare
-- well under 10%.) This disproves the myth that a gun kept for defense will most likely be used against a family member or someone you love.
In over half of these gun defense incidents, the defender was facing two or more attackers -- and three or more attackers in over a quarter of these
cases. (No means of defense other than a firearm -- martial arts, pepper spray, or stun guns -- gives a potential victim a decent chance of getting
away uninjured when facing multiple attackers.)
In 79.7% of these gun defenses, the defender used a concealable handgun. A quarter of the gun defenses occured in places away from the defender's
home.
|
|
|
Dan_Hensley
Founding Member
Posts: 716
Registered: 1/17/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hey DitchDoc!
You're right about politicians not walking around in huge events without gun toting federal agents. Those guys you see with the uzi machine guns
aren't CIA though. They are Secret Service. CIA Agents aren't allowed to be noticed and not very many of them are armed.
At these huge events the Secret Service and every other acronym you can think of are there and their agents are even sitting in the crowd, dressed
like any one of us. They walk, talk, and act like one of us and you'd never know unless you took a look at their pockets. They always carry credential
wallets and those Law Enforcement wallets the feds use are larger than any other wallet. They are more rectangular than other wallets, and longer too.
So, when you don't see a gun, look at the person right next to you and be careful what ya say! LOL! You're right about needing to watch our government
in case they turn on us, but we have laws now that make it illegal to fight a law enforcement officer or member of the government even if they are
wrong. So, if it ever happens, you better run fast and hide well, because if they capture you in a revolution, you're up a creek man!
Hiding would be a hard thing to do with helicopters, thermal imaging, and DNA testing. There are other detection methods used for manhunts now as
well. This all goes just to say that I hope we never see this happen, because it's gonna be worse than the North Vs. South in the civil war all those
years ago!
|
|
|
Kiro
Superlative Writer
Posts: 321
Registered: 12/18/2009
Location: Michigan
Member Is Offline
Mood: summer mood.
|
|
I have a couple of friends who are pro-guns. They wear their holsters on campus to raise awareness (no guns on college campuses of course). And do you
really think people who legally own firearms are the ones that create crime? I have to say most I know are perfectly sane and friendly human beings.
When asked "why do you campaign for people to be able to carry guns?" the answer is:"Dude. This is America". And I have to agree on that one
Also, on another note, Dan, would you consider walking in Downtown Detroit for about an hour or two because I'd like to see what your position on gun
control is then
~ Your friendly neighborhood vampire, Cristian
"Keep dreaming, Brad Moonglowaftervodkaski.... "
In the Workshop: Midnight Journal (The Transylvanian writes a vampire story)
Writing progress:
Your feelings are never wrong. Remember that when someone is trying to show you they are right and you are not. |
|
|
Svenja
Superlative Writer
Posts: 297
Registered: 7/14/2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: Shiny!
|
|
Coming into the discussion with an outsider's perspective... I've never owned, fired, or (I think) even seen a real gun in my life. I've lived in
Germany and Ireland, both countries with anti-gun laws. Not sure about the specifics, but the fact is, I don't know anyone who owns a gun (except for
possibly one of my neighbours, who's a farmer, but if he has one I haven't seen him with it).
And I'm sorry to say, but the US is way higher on the list of murders-per-capita than either Ireland or Germany. In fact, West and Central Europe tend
to congregate at the bottom of those lists. That's just statistics, though.
And it doesn't take into account the whole wild animals thing. We don't have them here. I can go wherever I want to in this country without wandering
into anything more dangerous than a rat or a cow.
We DO have that ridiculous law here whereby if someone breaks into your home, you can't harm them unless they go upstairs - if you do, they can sue
you. In the UK, someone won a lawsuit where he sued someone because he slipped and fell off their roof while trying to burgle them - no joke. That's
the other end of the extreme and I don't like it any better.
But I'll be honest - one of the reasons why I'd be nervous about living in the US is exactly that gun law. Maybe it's unfounded, maybe there are
brilliant reasons for people to own guns, but it makes me nervous. It just seems to me that overall, making dangerous weapons freely available just
drives up the overall violence scale. I realise that that's a somewhat controversial opinion, but again, I point you at the statistics. In 2005,
Ireland had 0.32 murders and assaults per 100,000 population, compared to 5.6 per 100,000 in the US.
I'm not really saying anything except that it's possible to be a safe country without allowing everyone to own a gun. Maybe in the US, the
way things are right now, it can't be done - but it's clearly feasible.
"Write who you are."
|
|
|
Svenja
Superlative Writer
Posts: 297
Registered: 7/14/2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: Shiny!
|
|
Also... I think that shooting an animal because it's defending itself because you came onto its turf is horrible. If there are feral animals
somewhere, leave them be, don't go there. If one comes into your back garden and attacks your kid, by all means, defend yourself and your family, but
provoking them by going onto their turf and then shooting them for attacking you... sorry, that just seems horrible to me.
"Write who you are."
|
|
|
ink4hyre
Member Writer
Posts: 55
Registered: 5/22/2009
Location: Mountains of NW Arizona
Member Is Offline
Mood: Determined
|
|
One final comment...
|
|
|
Mystress Gaia
Master Writer
Posts: 1651
Registered: 6/23/2008
Member Is Online
Mood: Dreamy
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Heather |
I have a rebuttal for every one of the paragraphs in your last post, but I know you won't change my way of thinking and I won't change yours.
The quoted statement above is extremely frightening to me. Consider these women:
Nicole Ganguzza - killed by a stranger while jogging
Isabelle Dube - killed by a bear while jogging
Sue Stottmeister - killed by a stranger while jogging
Amber Dubois - killed by a stranger while walking
Chelsea King - killed by a stranger while jogging
None of these women were dumb. They were jogging. They were not "attracting attention" to themselves.
Your misguided statement is the same as saying a woman deserved to get raped because she wore a short skirt.
The cops were not there to rescue them. Nobody was. They died. I'm not going to be like them.
|
I absolutely agree with you in everything you have said so far Heather.
I'm not going down without a fight.
"To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them …" George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380 (June 14, 1788).
|
|
|
Melanie
Founding Member
Posts: 4632
Registered: 1/17/2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: In the inquisition chamber with the killer.
|
|
| Quote: | | I've never owned, fired, or (I think) even seen a real gun in my life. |
Nor have I.
I think it's a bit funny sometimes that many people I've made the acquaintance of from other countries think that every American is toting a gun. (Not
you, Svenja. In other instances.)
|
|
|
Ditchdoctor
Accentuate Writer!
Posts: 653
Registered: 9/15/2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Well there was actually a time in my life that if I didn't shoot a rabbit that night, I didn't have lunch the next day at work. My dad died and it was
my mother, my sister, My wife, my newborn son and myself all living on my meager salary. There was a little food at home for everyone, but none for
lunch so into the swamps I went every night after work. No kidding, this was 1974.
Yes, I "came onto the animal's turf", looking for food. I was a natural part of the food chain that all animals are, people included. You can bet your
boots that if I was attacked by an animal for "being on it's turf" I would have killed, then eaten that animal.
I hope you never stop at Kentucky Fried Chicken for lunch, at least the animals that I had to hunt and eat had a much better chance of survival than
that chicken did. They were a lot more adept at surviving in the wild than I was at killing them and at times, there was no game and I went hungry the
next day. At times, I got two or three and could stay at home after work instead of tromping through the swamps at night after working all day.
As far as ..."if you were dumb enough to attract attention to yourself, then you deserve what happens." Please tell this to a person who lost a
relative who was sleeping in their own bed, in their own house one night when some scumbag broke in, raped, robbed then killed them. Be ready to run.
Don't let fear and common sense stand in your way.
|
|
|
Mystress Gaia
Master Writer
Posts: 1651
Registered: 6/23/2008
Member Is Online
Mood: Dreamy
|
|
I think Tom is right about the whole purpose of this thread. There will always be those on the Pro-Gun side and those on the Anti-Gun side.
Neither side wants to compromise.
But I believe the pro-gun side has a better chance and argument. We in the U.S. have the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. We have the
constitutional right to say what we want, believe what we want and write about what we want to the masses. We also have the right to be protected from
unwanted search and seizure, protection from self incrimination, the right to due process, a trial by jury and the right to confront our accusers. We
also have the right to not be cruelly and unusually punished.
We have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
If the second amendment gets taken away, soon the other amendments will be taken away.
|
|
|
shawnrohrbach
New Member (Welcome me!)
Posts: 11
Registered: 3/10/2010
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Ditchdoctor | | Sorry Moonshadow, I shouldn't have brought Obama into this. Again, there are just too many flaws in this logic to single any out. I carry and prefer a
knife when I'm out and about, it does not create the same paranoia or legalities but will do the job. |
Yup, same here. My father was a Ranger in #2 and as I grew up, of course we had guns, but he taught me the basics of a knife fight and how to let
your opponent know you are good with a knife and they will back off. I know this from personal experience. My brother is a sheriff and I have ridden
along with him from time to time. I witnessed investigations he had to conduct into shootings and the vast majority of them were people being shot
with their own guns because they do not know how to properly use them. I don't mean by accident. In one case a hiker was attacked on a trail from
behind, struggled and the attacker could see him going for his holstered gun and, thank you very much, took it from him and shot him dead cold. Is
that a reason not to have a gun? No. It is a compelling reason to be properly trained in the use of it.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/engage/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
