Accentuate Writers Forum
Not logged in [Login - Register]

Donations & advertising pay hosting fees, forum email, and email relays.

Thank you for being a member!

Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Do Amazon and Createspace rip off Indie publishers with failure to correctly report sales?
Literary Master


Posts: 2097
Registered: 10/19/2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 10/6/2013 at 09:01 AM
Do Amazon and Createspace rip off Indie publishers with failure to correctly report sales?

"When AgeView Press Indie pubbed the book FLYING SOLO in May of 2012, the author, Jeanette Vaughan immediately began tracking sales. She heard from excited friends and family who immediately emailed when ordering their copies. The first sales were off of Createspace’s e-store with the title ID number given to the author. Then, through Amazon, a week later, when the book went live on the site. Finally on Kindle, when the ebook format was completed.

Initially, things appeared kosher. People exclaiming that they had ordered the book, were showing up within a day or two on the electronic royalty reports with a reasaonable accuracy. But by June and July, sales descrepencies were noted by the author from customers claiming that they had purchased the book directly through Amazon, not an Amazon affiliate. Many of these sales were simply not listed.The author contacted Createspace customer support, who gave assurance that all sales were being accurately reported. FLYING SOLO was now also on Kindle Direct Publishing (KDP) Select, as well as expanded distribution channels, which included Amazon affiliates in the UK, France, Germany, Italy, and Spain. Sales were being reported to the author from readers and bookclubs in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

The first note of apparent discrepancy came when a dear friend of the author ordered three copies of the book from Amazon in June. These books were ordered all at the same time, from direct. Yet, that cluster of three sales was never posted as such. Another instance in early July involved the same issue. Again, a customer ordered three copies, yet no sales were trackable through Amazon’s channels for three sales purchased on the same day.

In the meantime, the author was making public appearnances, being featured on blogs and radio, and rounding with booksignings. During the months of June and July, no expanded distribution channel sales were posted on the royalty report, yet customers were emailing the author letting her know how much the book was being enjoyed overseas. More than 15 five star reviews for the novel were posted on Amazon.

What should have shown as a surge of sales, as the book peaked, never appeared on the royalty reports. The author was suspect. She contacted Ingram directly, only to be informed that they were not supposed to reveal information to an author directly. So, the Indie publisher, AgeView Press made the call. Ingram showed 16 copies of the book ordered through their system total since May. Those sales never showed on the June or July royalty report. The author filed formal complaints with Createspace customer service, but received only canned letters in response explaining that indeed there was an issue with reports in Expanded Distribution and it was being investigated. Advice to the author from Createspace? Please be patient.

By August, it was clear there were gross inaccuracies. The 30 copies ordered from Barnes and Noble never showed up. Few, if any, sales were listed for August. Yet. the author had confirmation of over 4,000 copies in distribution worldwide. The crowning blow came in September. A plan was devised. A friend, agreed to help with the investigation. She ordered a copy of FLYING SOLO on September 7th, taking screen shots of her order and confirmation of payment directly from Amazon. She printed out her receipt showing date and time of purchase. The book arrived on September 13, to San Jose, California. Photos were taken. The sale was complete. Copies of all screenshots and receipts were scanned and sent to the author. By September 20th, no sales were shown at all on Createspaces report. Phoning Createspace, the author was informed that no sales were showing for Amazon for the month for that title. It was time for outrage! What had been suspected, had now been proven. Not once, but twice!

Time to climb up the foodchain. After many phonecalls and emails to Createspace, a Senior customer service “executive” phoned personally and stated he would investigate. Talk about a wacky result. Due to the print on demand status of Createspace books, sometimes they are one or two books ahead. Thus even though your book was printed in one month, but sold in another, a royalty might actually show up in the prior month for that sale. What???

No one expects to get rich off of writing a book. Few and far between experience the Oprah Bookclub golden orbs of success. But how are authors to trust a system, happy to take their money for assisting to create and publish a book, which does not thoroughly, detail accurate sales? Simply outrageous. What options does that leave the Indie publishers? How can they possibly track the success of their marketing efforts. Is the publishing world doomed to be controlled by the big six? Are small bookstores and Indie presses to be overrun by powerhouse chains which offer the Indie published writer no turf?

How can the press or the author be sure those sales are accurate with no detail? Rise up Indie authors! Repost this story! Tweet it, facebook it. Make it go viral. Print it and send it to your local newspaper and the Associated Press. This abject fraud is outrageous and MUST STOP!"

John R. Clark, Managing Editor, AgeView Press



[Edited on 10/6/2013 by RobertArend]

View user's profile
Literary Master

Posts: 1237
Registered: 10/5/2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 10/6/2013 at 10:29 AM

Since I put my book out on paperback, I hadn't recorded a single sale even though my ebook sales are fairly steady. I saw this article and it worried me. So last night I ordered a copy of the paperback from Amazon using a different account. This morning, I have a sales rank and a sale recorded on Createspace.

Obviously, I can't extrapolate a broad conclusion but it would seem to indicate that their sales reporting software is functional.

Melissa Snark
P.O. Box 1347, Pleasanton, CA 94566
twitter: @MelissaSnark

My website: Melissa Snark author site

My blog: The Snarkology

View user's profile Visit user's homepage
Boss(y) Lady / Site Owner / Admin

Posts: 13831
Registered: 1/15/2008
Location: Texas
Member Is Offline

Mood: Pained

[*] posted on 10/27/2013 at 02:02 AM

Here's the thing.

Createspace is a separate company from Amazon. Even though they are owned by the same company, they act like different companies in how they interact. When you publish in CS, and you have it automatically feed into Amazon, they treat CS as an 'associate'. In other words, it's true that when a book is selling well, they will send two or three copies of the book to Amazon at one time--sometimes as much as 5-10 copies of the book. Amazon will merge a customer order with one or two copies of their own or they'll order one copy at a time for themselves, etc.

Amazon pays for those copies when they are ordered, NOT when they are sold to customers. This is how it works with all major book retailers. Sales are reported by the distributor when the books are sold to the customer--which is the bookstore, not the end user. The reason CS sales show up instantly is that they are both the distributor and the bookstore. With Amazon, they are just a bookstore, while CS is the distributor.

When you are an Amazon Associate who sells product to Amazon to warehouse, they pay you for the books when they order them from you and you ship them. Then, if the books don't sell in X amount of time, they return them to you and deduct the costs from your current/future royalties by debiting your account--this can happen sometimes months or sometimes days or weeks later. This is not any different than the way the entire distribution industry works.

The problem with self-published, indie authors coming on the scene is that they aren't familiar with how distribution channels actually do work, so they are questioning things that are not making sense to them--but if they took the time to research and learn, they'd realize this is pretty standard for the entire book retailer/distribution industry.

I think Amazon is telling her the truth. If her books are selling that well, they are likely ordering some extra books and are stocking them at the Amazon warehouse rather than ordering from CS every single time someone orders. This delays shipping time for them.

I think Amazon is too big in the public eye for them to make mistakes like this right now.

Love and stuff,
~~Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations~~

Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." James R. Cook


Check Out My Author Website! Read Book Reviews There or Request a FREE Author Interview!
View user's profile Visit user's homepage


  Go To Top

Join Amazon Prime - Watch Over 40,000 Movies

Powered by XMB
XMB Forum Software © 2001-2011 The XMB Group